TS185 erratic running. Runs better with choke- seals?

jws3

Got a 1979 TS185 that has been largely restored. Soon after the rebuild we had a bad clutch side engine seal. Burned some trans fluid, had white smoke & weird idle issues. The seal was replaced & all was well for a few hundred miles. I bought this bike new almost 32 years ago, so it has a special value to me.

Unfortunately, I recently noticed the motor started to run erratically. The motor wouldn't idle without either lots of throttle or the choke on 1/2. In fact, it seemed to generally run better on 1/2 choke! I immediately checked the transmission fluid and saw its level unchanged. No white smoke, either.

I then pulled the magneto & saw some oil smears & drips on the magneto cover. I am heavily suspecting a bad magneto seal. Why it would go bad after only a few hundred miles is beyond me since the originals lasted 30 years! At least that one doesn't require pulling the whole damned motor to replace it.

A compression test was good. 6 kicks on slightly warm engine with open throttle gave me 135-140 lbs. Didn't find any carb leaks, either.

What does the collective wisdom here say? Mag side seal? If yes, why would it go bad so soon? Seems odd for the originals to go 30 years & new ones only 2 or so.

Also, any suggestions of how to best remove the flywheel?

rdaystrom · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:50 am Post subject:

I doubt the new seal went bad on it's sealing surface although it is possible. If there is a seal problem it may have just popped out of place. In either case you have enough evidence with oil on the mag cover to warrant pulling the flywheel. If my memory is correct that flywheel takes a three bolt puller. I used a harmonic balancer puller from Harbor Freight. ($13)
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=&q=harmonic+puller
The flywheel holes are 6mm so you have to buy three 6mm bolts and some fender washers to cover the slots in the puller because the bolts are so small. That set up worked great on my TS400 flywheel recently.
If the seal popped out you may need to replace it and put a good sealer around it that gets fairly hard. Your mechanic may have installed it with just oil or grease allowing it to pop out. Another method of retaining the seal would be to peen the edge of the case equidistant in three places around the seal with a flat-ended round pin punch. Be sure to mount you stator coil plate exactly where it was before or reset the ignition timing yourself.
There are other things to consider here as well. Since your symptoms point to a severe lean condition it is possible that your new cylinder base gasket has sucked in somewhere. Inspect all the way around the cylinder base. If you cannot see the gasket edge it may have sucked in allowing air to be sucked in creating your lean condition. You could potentially diagnose this by spraying a volatile carb spray around the base gasket with the engine idling. If it is sucking air the engine will change rpm dramatically when you spray the area where the gasket is sucked in. Also be sure the CCI lines are where they are supposed to be. Also check the fuel tank for contaminated gas, check the petcock for adequate fuel supply. (free flowing gas with the line removed) Check the carb for stopped up main jet, stopped up low speed jet, stuck or bad float, debris in the needle and seat. Be sure you have a good air filter element. Old foam filters deteriorate and get sucked into engines way too frequently causing havoc.

jws3

Excellent suggestions and ideas. Thanks for taking the time.

I had a very capable and experienced local Suzuki mechanic do the bottom end about 500 hundred miles ago. The man is old enough that he worked on these when NEW. I had the cases split to powdercoat them & figured we might as well do seals & check bearings, etc. while apart.

I doubt it is fuel, as the gas is a few days old. Will check the base gasket. I remember the mechanic being surprised that the clutch side seal went within 100 miles. He said it was a PITA as it is "hidden". One has to pull the engine to get to it, which is why I was really, really hoping that wasn't again the problem. I suppose the carb is possible, but I run marine grade sta-bil at all times & don't let the fuel go more than 6 months. It too was fully cleaned & rebuilt.

I'll have to get some tools & see what there is. Good thing I have a large supply of parts--6 Rubbermaid bins. If I had a frame I could literally build another one. I've had this since a boy & want to keep it running for a few more generations.

Once I get the tools I'll let all here know. Thanks, and I again welcome suggestions & ideas.

ductune · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:08 am Post subject:

Sounds like a plugged pilot jet. The mag side crank seal may or may not be bad but I would clean the pilot jet first.

jws3

ductune

jws3

Found a clogged pilot jet, but still need to check the left (Magneto) side seal due to a slight tendency to race and presence of a small misting of oil on the magneto cover. The bike also doesn't always want to smoothly idle. Sometimes it will & sometimes it jut runs so slowly it dies. Not sure what else to check, but will pull the magneto to check the L seal. Will need the dealer's help for that, as I cannot get the magneto off no matter what I do. Managed to shear off 2 of the magneto pullers 3 mounting screws! Rather than risk harm or damage an old school and very experienced Suzuki mechanic will help me. I'll let the board know how things make out.

jws3

With the senior mechanic's help we removed the flywheel, which took considerable force--way too much in his opinion. Must have gotten stuck. There was a small amount of wetness (oil) in and about the inner case. WIth his help I replaced the seal and then he suggested sealing the old casting plugs or the like with a heavy duty compound, as he's been around long enough to remember a service bulletin to that effect.

The stuff is still drying, so we'll see what happens in a day or so......

jws3 · Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject: UPDATE: Timing was off a bit-

Seems the timing may have been off a hair. The senior mechanic at the local dealer helped me out and adjusted it. Seemed to run better, but it was 35 degrees out when I picked it up, so I'll have to wait till Spring to really know.