sidecar?

jvandyke · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: sidecar?

My son, who is 10 and my most frequent passenger wants a sidecar. That would be very cool. Probably not cost effective but if anyone knows of something in the west michigan area, let me know. I see the Velorex stuff and there's one on ebay but I suppose shipping would be killer.

tbpmusic · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:33 am Post subject:

You and me both, brudda'. I have an old '75 GoldWing I'd love to have a rig on.

Sidecars are hard to come up with, expensive in any condition.
And tough to set up properly so you don't kill yourself.

Many times it may be cost effective/safer to get an entire bike/hack rig as a unit.
You'll find many more of those for sale than you'll find separate cars alone........I'd love to have a Ural, personally.

jayel · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:53 am Post subject:

I've got a light sidecar rig works good on my 450 too light for anything bigger so it's possible to get one to heavy for your machine too, some of those old Velos or Solexs weigh a ton

tjls8011 · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:47 am Post subject:

Jayel what brand of sidecar rig is it that you have. I have been looking for one for my honda 450 project

jayel · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject:

Thompson cycle car from 1970s probably hard to find a light rig like this unless you just luck into it

tbpmusic · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject:

Pretty cool, Jay - mind showing some photos of your mounting arrangement??
Any problems with "head-shaking">> (I notices there was no damper mounted)

jayel · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:56 pm Post subject:

I'll post some tomorrow have to charge cam batts and then brave the cold Laughing

had to make own mounts just 3/8 flat strap drilled and bent to fit points on bike, front that little cross tube at the top, lower front motor mount, rear pass peg mount and around upper frame tube near top shock mount

a little head shake at take-off nothing at speed have had it up to 75 but much happier at 55-60

KirkN · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject:

Man, I'm kicking myself! I had a chance to pick up a nice old Velo (I think) for $1500, all rigged up with nice lighting, nice interior and nice paint. I thought that was a pretty good deal and was mulling it over to use on my 360. Just something different, y'know...

Now you guys come along and rekindle that dormant flame, but now it's too late and it's gone. Sigh.

Good luck with it, both of you.

Kirk

jayel · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject:

here are some pics of my mounts in reverse order
4st pic loop around frame tube, 3rd rear to pass peg mount, 2nd front upper to safety bar cross tube, 1st front motor mount

jvandyke · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject:

I'll keep my eyes open for a raging good deal. I don't want to invest too much just to haul my kid around once in a while (he already does fine on the pillion. I don't want the bike drastically altered to run a chair either as I would want to run without at least as often, better to get a second bike than, a whole rig as you say.

Russell · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject:

Can tell you from years of experience that taking a chair off the bike to run the bike solo is something that sounds good but in reality can be problematic.
If you are genuinely just occasionally hanging a light sidecar on the side to trundle a kid around the block at very low speed you may be able to get away with what you propose.
Even a lightish chair will cause the bike to scuff along the road with front wheel needing to be held 'against' the crown of the road on 2 lane blacktop. If you do any such riding at say 50 mph the tyre treads are going to scuff up in a way that makes the bike feel a bit 'uncertain' on the road in solo trim. Conventional bike tyres give the best 'feel' with a chair at very soft pressures, which also results in bizarre wear patterns for solo riding.
To moderate the 'headshake, especially on deceleration from road-speed you will need either to fit a steering damper or tighten the steering head bearing beyond what is prudent for solo riding.
Solo bikes are way over-geared for sidecar duty and to be kind to the engine and transmission gearing down can be a positive approach. My current permanently set up GS750E would red-line in top at under 100 mph.That makes it ideal for chair duty.

When I had a previous chair on my only bike, an XJ900, I ended up buying a second pair of wheels to use when the bike was 'hacking' with cheap trials block tyres at both ends. That looked after the Pirelli's for solo work but added considerably to the nuisance factors and time factor when I wanted to switch between 'hack' and solo. Those extra wheels are still in the shed 20 years later!

Now I have the privileged position of being able to have both a permanently set up chair and solo bikes in the shed.That has allowed the outfit to be set-up and 'tuned' for chair work to a degree that simply wasn't possible with my first go round all those years ago.

Not saying don't do it but am sharing that I would with the benefit of hindsight not 'go back'.

The last comment is sort of cautionary. My own experience has been that the lighter the sidecar the 'trickier' the outfit is to handle especially around town. If you fit a light chair to any bike my earnest suggestion is to add considerable ballast to the chair for your first rides.

jayel · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:35 pm Post subject:

Russell · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:13 pm Post subject:

Yep. With a light chair it is alarming just how quickly the chair will lift when a turn towards the chair is initiated. Can catch you out big-time if you haven't been hacking for a while and are in 'solo' mindset.Why? Well...if you don't roll on some gas immediately the chair is going to just keep coming up and you'll be lying under a bike with the chair on the top-side! Shutting the throttle down once the chair has 'lifted' just encourages it to keep lifting!

jvandyke · Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:12 am Post subject:

I'm sure this is most excellent quality.
ebay rig

tbpmusic · Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:19 am Post subject:

That Chineeze BMW copy would suit me just fine (Assuming I could ever afford one)...

Russell made good points - sidecar rigs are hell on tires - you also need some instruction if you've never driven one before, they can be dangerous and there are non-intuitive characteristics to learn and deal with. You'll spend lots of time learning in a big parking lot close to home, especially right-hand turns (unless you ride on the wrong side of the road like Brits).
Most rigs do use a hefty steering damper as well.
You need to simulate the weight of a passenger if the hack is unoccupied, a lot of guys use sandbags. Rule of thumb is to stand on the opposite side foot peg and tug up on the bars - if the hack wheel lifts up, it needs more weight.
There are some high-end rigs with electric lean control, sort of like power trim/tilt on a boat, you dial in the lean setting to suit the road you're on - they're pretty expen$ive though.......