Question about 2 stroke oil injection.

undertheradar

On my 66 K15p, it has the auto oil injection. The oil pump is not working, and I've been told I can just bypass it by premixing. Anybody know if this is true?
Thanks guys!

Rizingson · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:57 pm Post subject:

You shouln't run the engine without the injection pump working as it supplies oil to the crank bearings as well as the cylinder.

undertheradar · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:17 pm Post subject:

Awesome! That's exactly what I needed to know. Thanks for the image as well. Any chance you have the rest of the pages from that manual? Smile

Another question.... Mines missing the throttle cable, and in the image it looks like the cable split between the carb and the oil pump. Know where I can fin that cable? All the ones I see on eBay are just a single line.
Thanks!

Steve Searles · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: Two Stroke Lubrication

Let's debate this for a bit and see what others think. I respectfully disagree. Since a two stroke has the gas/air mixture go into the crankcase and then get sucked up thru the intake ports in the cylinder; if you mixed oil with the gas, the oil would lube the crank bearings. Are not all crank bearings exposed to the gas/air mixture in the crankcase?? Therefore, mixing oil with the gas lubes the crank, crank bearings, piston and rings.

KirkN · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject:

Steve, generally speaking, you are correct - the crankshaft bearings are lubricated by the oil in the gas/oil mixture and disabling an oil injector pump and running pre-mix will not damage the crankshaft bearings.

HOWEVER, a number of two-stroke motors have one or even both crank bearings isolated from the normal intake path you've described and those bearings are NOT lubed that way. They are lubed by the oil injection pump and no other way. In those instances, disabling the pump and running premix will lead to crankshaft bearings not being lubed. A number of the Hodaka models were / are this way. But not all. My own Hodaka 250SL was such that you could disable the pump and run pre-mix with no worries.

I didn't answer this question earlier, because the answer is very model-specific, and I don't / didn't know for his specific model.

Kirk

Rizingson · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:52 pm Post subject:

It is model specific as KirkN has stated. However I don't believe that it can be done with any Suzuki that has either Posi-Force or CCI injection systems. The image I attached was from an ad, it clearly shows as the manuals state that the left hand crank bearing is first to receive oil directly from the pump and than it flows through the crank to the rod bearings and is drawn up into the cylinder by vacuum and mixed with fuel. This system only has one discharge tube from the pump. Suzuki's CCI system uses 2 tubes per cylinder. One to feed the crank and rod bearings and the other is discharged directly on the cylinder wall. So one tube could conceivably be blocked if you were running pre-mix. I'm sure someone else on this thread also has plenty of Suzuki experience and would welcome a correction in my analyzes. Anyway for me bottom line is whenever I hear of somebody trying to avoid using the pump on a Suzuki, I just shudder and hope he doesn't do a header over the handlebars when the crank seizes. Or at least only a soft seize.
Undertheradar, are you sure the pump is bad or does it just in need priming, unclogging the line, or air removal from the line. Kick it over while watching for pump rotation.

dorT500 · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:18 pm Post subject:

Actually I think everybody is right, 'undertheradar', including your friend that said you "could" bypass the oil pump and use pre-mix on this single cylinder motor. The posi-force lubrication system on this bike was added on the K15P.......the earlier K15 did not have it ( according to input from an owner that supplied the below brochures to the site below) .It is my thought that all crank components remained the same in the K15P's and the K15's crank chamber. With the exception of an oil transfer plate between a roller bearing and though a crank wheel I would think they would have had to add to it, I would think that would be about the only difference made inside the crankchamber. As I read the brochures and comment text below them and as the drawing in the brochure and posted by 'Rizingson' eludes to is that the lube system was added to 'enhance' the lubrication at key points, burn cleaner and for convienience. Double crank life, reduce heat at higher rpm's, etc. Obviously, decades later and I will assume a fair amout of miles on it....the right path is to install a new pump if the lines have been tested for free flow ( do not use compressed air, they may have small check valves in them) and all attempts have been made (including bleeding) to get the existing pump working. Good luck.

Click on brochures to enlarge pics and text...

http://www.suzukicycles.org/K-series/K15_brochures.shtml

Edit: Sorry, did not want to seem repetitive on 'Rizingson's' last reply....I had pre-typed my reply in 'WordPad' before his reply appeared and I was too lazy to edit my pasted reply.

undertheradar · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject:

dorT500 · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:55 pm Post subject:

Seems like these are the right ones? You will still need a little brass cable end pc. I think to fit through the pump arm end.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=58300-03300&_sacat=See-All-Categories

dorT500 · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject:

Might also want to check with those K15 owners over on thumper talk.... For lines and such...if you have not already checked with this link I gave earlier.

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8434828

undertheradar · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:20 pm Post subject:

Thanks...I actually found those on ebay just a little while ago. One part down. Very Happy

I have posted over on the thumper forums, but no responses yet. Thanks for the help.

dorT500 · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:32 pm Post subject:

If I am right about you needing a little cable end pc.....if it is made like I think it might be, then it should be easy enough to make one. I will try to find a pic of the piece I am talking about when and if the time comes you need one.

undertheradar · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject:

It looks like in the pictures that it comes with the cable stop on all three ends. Is that what you're talking about? The little barrel?

dorT500 · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject:

No.......it is a separate inividual little piece....if the pump arm end is like I think it is. I could be wrong...but I don't think so.

dorT500 · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject:

Before you go too far....how is the electrical system? You had mentioned a bad or missing carb. Are you getting spark?