Suzuki T 200 exhaust

Bikegeezer · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:36 am Post subject:

I wouldn't recommend running that engine much above idle with the baffles out. Baffles aren't an option on a two-stroke engine. They're mandatory. Removing them reduces engine power drastically and can cause severe engine damage from over heating if you put it under load. Getting it "on the pipe" with baffles out is a definite no no.

Stu

ztnoo · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:16 pm Post subject:

Well.....I'm not running anything....let alone a Suzuki T200 without baffles.
I fear you take me too seriously.....or don't understand my context.
My previous post is meant as an analogy, not reality.
I used the example of searching for mufflers for BjÃ¶rgvin, to trying to start a two stoke motor with wild port timing that is ONLY happy running in a very narrow power band.
The comparison was offered to show how difficult it has been to keep a search for specific parts going.......the damn thing always wants to die on you.....and you don't always understand why......except there aren't enough revs and I can't do squat about that......its controlled by others....

The bike is in Iceland......that includes the motor.
The current pipes (of which there are TWO choices now) are in Indiana.
Mr. B may be able to run his motor without pipes in Iceland, but I am somewhat hampered here..... because I have no motor.......even though I have pipes.
I doubt Mr. B would be so foolish.
I don't have that option.

I'm only removing the baffles to clean the interior of the mufflers. They'll go right back in when I'm finished.

More tomorrow.....with pics.
Are we having fun yet?

Regards,
Steve

ztnoo · Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:29 pm Post subject:

Sorry guys.....my tomorrow turned into an extended period.
The reason: the hospitalization and eventual demise of my 91 year old father.
My family has the finishing details to attend to later this week.

The muffler thing has been a great diversion during the last several months because of my father problems.
If anyone focused only on the home health care staff managment/attending to family business/caring for a aging parent stuff 24/7, you'd probably lose it in short order.
It has been stressful, but fortunately I haven't gone bonkers.

Got the MN pipes and they are very nice overall.
A few minor flaws, but considering everything I have been through locating anything of reason someone was willing to part with, I think I got pretty lucky.
I'm considering shipping them to the pipe smash/dent/ding guys in Vegas for a pressurized heat session to pop the minor dings out.
Then I decide what to do after I get them back.

I have been able to successfully burn the oil residue/carbon build-up from the pipes which will be going to Iceland (muffler set #2 from Minnesota). Another trick I used to dislodge the remaining scale and debris after the torch burnout was to use 1.77 Cal. BBs intended for air guns. I have used these successfully in the past for rust residue removal inside gas tanks. I much prefer these BBs to nuts and bolts. While they might not have as effective cutting action as nuts and bolts because there are no sharp edges, the BBs are much less likely to hang up and get caught in odd angles and corners. They naturally roll quite well and with enough end to end and side to side shaking action, create the turbulence and agitation to knock down high spots and debris that can be accessed in no other way. I simply plug one end of the muffler with a one inch rubber cap (whatever size appropriate to the situation) used to protect chair and table legs, add a 4000 count container of BBs, cap the other end with a second furniture rubber cap, and shake the everluvin' daylights out of the pipe for a while. When finished, simply unplug one end and shake until you hear no more rattling. It is really amazing what comes out......rust scale, carbon chunks and powder, and even stuff I can't readily identify. Its a home brew, DIYer solution, but one that uses common accessible items to solve the tough problem of 'how do I get that crap out'? I then blow out with compressed air and examine with a flashlight. If more needs to be done, simply repeat the same steps. I may yet give the interior a kerosene wash out.....haven't decided yet.

The interiors were really carboned and oiled up, but I think the oil (mixed with dry dust and dirt on the outer surfaces of the mufflers) in particular over time really helped preserve the pipes.
There's one very small ding on the bottom side of the left head pipe. Also one very minor, shallow dent on the bottom of the middle left muffler.
The right muffler has a small, shallow crease a short distance back from where the head pipe is factory welded into the muffler.
None of these little flaws would be very noticeable when mounted to the bike.
My carbon/oil burn out with a mapp gas torch worked great....both of those pipes smoked like little chimneys for quite a while once I got the carbon to burn on its own.
I also applied a low pressure compressed air stream into each pipe to aid in the burn off.
The only negative thing about the burn off was there was some bluing of the head pipes.......I would assume because of the temperature of the burning carbon.
I think I have the interiors about as clean as one could get them. I did a couple more BB shot sessions on each pipe after the burn off and got even more junk out. Not having separate head pipes and mufflers really creates a lot more difficulty in servicing the insides.
The chrome is still very healthy overall on the pipes with only a few small spots of surface rust, again on not easily seen areas. Minor surface scratching on the chrome everywhere, but not a huge problem. They are really solid pipes......they just don't look showroom new. After all, they are 45 years old. I also located a NOS set of baffles for the pipes and they are now in my possession.

The real dilemma is whether to have them stripped and rechromed. Since they are in such good shape, they are prime candidates to have chrome restoration. They might last years in Iceland they way they are now, but Iceland is a relatively warm and very moist place for as far north as it is...just south of the Arctic Circle. It has to do with the Gulf Stream getting that far north. Condensation would be a huge issue there with anything related to an internal combustion engine. Definitely Condensation City. Rechroming would add considerable length to the service life of the pipes, IMO.

I can't imagine finding a much better set of T200 mufflers. I have intensively searched for three months and only ran across 5 sets to pick from. One set was cheap but beat to hell, two sets priced too high with little pictorial proof provided by sellers to prove the worth of the asking price, and I have the other two sets (the first of which has pin holing and other rust through problems). It's not like these pipes are still growing on trees out there.....they are becoming very rare and hard to find.
I'm sure Brown's could have these pretty much looking like brand new pipes in a flash. The big drawback is the cost involved.
$265 per pipe to rechrome is pretty serious money IMO. It kind of becomes where do you want to draw the line and how far do you want to go. I guess that's every restorer's dilemma. Where does reason stop and insanity begin?

Anyway, here's the pictorial evidence I present for your perusal:

The cleaned up, burned out mufflers with NOS baffles:

Right muffler showing scratching and creasing:

Right muffler, details:

Right muffler, more details:

Right head pipe bluing from carbon burnout:

Right muffler, rear inside:

Left muffler showing ding:

Left head pipe showing ding on bottom:

Left head pipe showing ding and bluing from carbon burnout:

Left muffler, middle inside:

Left muffler, inside, aft head pipe:

Well that's it for now, folks.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
Hope you are having a great 4th of July!
cheers

Regards,
Steve

mopehead440 · Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject:

Steve....Sorry to hear of your loss....Been there, and done that. Knew what you were going through as you talked of your caregiving earlier! I spent three years keeping my Mom out of homes; it was worth every minute of it. One year ago today, it ended!

Pipes look good; sounds like you are on the "down hill slide". I know it's been a battle, I hope your Iceland buddy appreciates all your efforts. I'm trying to think of something that I need, something impossible to find; something that we can watch you "swing into action" with!! It'll happen! Hurry and get those pipes done and shipped, before he emails you and advises that he's located a set down the street for free!!!! And so it goes!!!! Exclamation

pj_elia · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:06 pm Post subject:

Steve,

I just read this thread and found it very interesting. Sorry to hear about your loss. Pipes look really good to me. A little time on the polishing wheel would help a bit. Nice seeing someone willing to go the extra mile to help out another.

Good luck.

ztnoo · Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:15 am Post subject:

pj_elia,
Thanks for your condolences. We (my sis and I) did our best for our dad for almost three full years. We were able to keep him mostly in his own home with a few excursions to the hospital and a nursing home for physical therapy following the very debilitating effects of urinary tract infection (UTI). But finally you get to the point where you can't fix what's broken and you are forced to make a decision about what you are going to do. We chose to keep him comfortable with nothing but O2 and a low dose morphine drip. He passed away with no pain, discomfort, or agitation. He lived a good, productive, fulfilled life and did something right to live to be 91 years of age.

Now he's getting even with me dealing with all the stuff collected during that long life.

He's gotta be laughing his ass off. I'm the personal representative of the estate and have to deal not only with the legal and business stuff relating to his estate, but I also get the job of physically dealing with all of his (and my predeceased mother's) "stuff".... Ham radio gear, antique radios, electronic test equipment, antennas & an antenna tower, glassware, china, furniture, vehicles, shop and woodworking tools, artwork, picture frames, books, etc., etc., etc. The list goes on and on. Fortunately we aren't pressured to vacate the premises, so we aren't rushed to have to dump things or have a "fire sale". We probably won't even list the house until at least next spring. It needs a few things done also. I'm busy every day with one thing or another, but at the end of each day I ask myself 'what did you really get done today'. The only way someone can really appreciate what I'm saying is if you've ever been an executor or personal representative of an estate. It truly is a learning experience.

Anyway, as to the pipes for BjÃ¶rgvin, obviously I've been off the case for a while. I did get the pipes burned out as described above and they have been sitting on one of my temporary work benches for too long. I been in touch with a muffler/pipe smash, ding, and dent firm in NV and the guy tells me from the pics I have sent him, he can resolve the small flaws in these pipes, no problem. So, I'm getting ready to ship the pipes off to him to see what he can do for them, When I get them back, I'll make a decision about whether to rechrome or not. The one thing I've learned big time in all this, is that the "restoration" process can be a slow, arduous, even grueling battle to get what you need and get it whipped into shape, at whatever level of restoration one is doing. Its made me have a deeper appreciation and understanding of what so many forum members here go through to achieve the desired end result.

Stay tuned for future reports.

Regards,
Steve