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Joined: Jun 03, 2009 Posts: 90 Location: Central Washington State
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: 74 GT250 Fork confusion
I'm stumped. Trying to replace the fluid in my forks. No bolt on the top end. Rubber cap; circlip and that's it.
I've got the wheel off, fender off, everything disconnected from the forks.
Loosen top and bottom tree crimps? My manual, crummy as it is, shows bolt at the top.
I know the answer is very simple: can someone point it to me?
Thanks.
Joined: Jun 03, 2009 Posts: 90 Location: Central Washington State
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject:
Thanks for your suggestion
Here's what I'm looking at.
I got the fork out. Now I've a tube with no nut at one end (home of a previously removed circlip) and midway down the tube the larger aluminum tube onto which the fender/wheel/brake caliper attach.
There was a clip, not a circlip, on top of what I believe is the oil seal visible after removing the plastic boot covering the joint between narrower and larger tubes.
My manual says "remove circlip and the two tubes will separate with the oil seal going off with the narrower tube" or words to that effect.
There's no circlip visible at the oil seal.
I've spare seals. I'm tempted to rip the existing seal out and hope there's a circlip underneath, 'cause it sure ain't on top!
Which still leaves me wondering: how do I add new fork oil when there's no bolt at the top end? Flip the sucker over and add through the miniscule drain hole? Huh? What? That's crazy.
What am I missing? The manual is worthless at this point and I've scoured this forum with no hint of the situation I'm looking at.
Joined: Aug 18, 2009 Posts: 23 Location: Drexel, MO
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject:
Remove rubber cap on top of fork, depress plug in center and remove circlip, then let center plug loose or push it in really hard and let her loose and it should pop right out the top exposing the fork spring (or maybe the easiest thing to do would be to just compress the chrome tube after circlip is removed and the spring will push plug out the top) and from there it sounds like you know where you're going.
As far as the seal, generally speaking, there is always a cir clip either on top of the dust seal or under it and on top of the oil seal.
Generally speaking, kinda the way it normally goes is that you remove the top cap (previously discussed and as you know), then you compress the spring and with an impact pop out the bolt on the very bottom of the fork while compressing the spring, this will give some resistance to help the tube from spinning. After the bolt is removed, dump out damping rod, remove snap ring above or below dust seal, clamp fork lower let in a vice, lightly heat up lower fork leg where the outer fork bushing would be (just below oil seal) with a propane torch then grab the top tube (chrome) and give a HUGE heave and it should pop apart.
Hope this help, if I just told you all kinds of stuff you already know please disregard. Hard to understand where someone is at by staring at a computer monitor.
Joined: Aug 18, 2009 Posts: 23 Location: Drexel, MO
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject:
Just checked the micro fiche. I would say that if you aren't seeing a circlip above the oil seal, I'd look to see if there is a groove for it to go and if you don't see one, see if you can drive the seal down to expose one. There is always that possibility that someone in the past rebuilt the forks and forgot to put it in.
Joined: Jun 03, 2009 Posts: 90 Location: Central Washington State
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject:
THANK YOU
I don't really know what I'm doing, so anything you suggest is helpful
The manual says "On a GT250 DON'T REMOVE THE BOLT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FORK" or all sorts of dire consequences, to the third and fourth generation, will follow. It warns of trouble with the innards not being properly centered. Leave that bottom bolt alone, they yell.
you wrote:
Remove rubber cap on top of fork, depress plug in center and remove circlip, then let center plug loose or push it in really hard and let her loose and it should pop right out the top exposing the fork spring (or maybe the easiest thing to do would be to just compress the chrome tube after circlip is removed and the spring will push plug out the top)
I removed the rubber cap and the circlip, but it sure looks to me like the tube is one solid piece--or perhaps it's rusted into one piece, though there's no rust showing. As far as I can see there's no plug to push out. I can't tell from the manual pictures if there's some works inside the narrow/top tube. It's heavy; doesn't feel hollow.
I scraped away at the oil seal (the seal I think is the oil seal: it sure looks like the new one I have to put in its place) and what's showing is aluminum like the larger diameter, lower third, tube. Still no circlip.
What you suggested I do next is pretty close to what the manual says to do, BUT NOT FOR A GT model. URGH, this is frustrating! You're describing something that makes perfect sense. But not on my bike.
I'm going to hang it up, lest I do harm. I'll tackle it again tomorrow.
Thanks again: it's encouraging to get some feedback.
Joined: Jun 03, 2009 Posts: 90 Location: Central Washington State
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:16 am Post subject:
Update
In the clear light of day l can see what my brain said must be there: a gap in what appears to be solid metal at the top of the fork.
I gently hammered on a dowel on the top of the fork and, after about 8 taps, the spring pressed the top of the fork up and out. It was jammed on with rust and grunge. So now the top of the fork is free and the spring is too, so I can see what logically must have been there: a way to add oil.
Back to the lower half, where the oil seal is resting. The doggone halves will not separate.
But one problem is solved. I imagine with grease of the elbow variety and a modicum of thought that too will sort out.
Clear light of day doesn't show a circlip at the oil seal.
Anyone?
Thanks.
Horsmann
Joined: Aug 18, 2009 Posts: 23 Location: Drexel, MO
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject:
Horsmann wrote:
The manual says "On a GT250 DON'T REMOVE THE BOLT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FORK" or all sorts of dire consequences, to the third and fourth generation, will follow. It warns of trouble with the innards not being properly centered. Leave that bottom bolt alone, they yell.
I'm really glad right now that you followed the manual's destructions and not mine. Good luck!
Joined: Jun 03, 2009 Posts: 90 Location: Central Washington State
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject:
The saga continues
Looking at the fork oil seal there's a circlip rim/edge clearly there above the seal. There was a pseudo-circlip in place, now removed. That threw me: it wasn't a circlip. Previous owner must have been in here before me.
Anyway, the seal is there and boy is it there!
I borrowed a younger man's muscle, trying to yank the two parts apart as per the manual. We both think the seal MIGHT have moved. Maybe. If you squint. And cross your fingers.
So I'm thinking the whole mess is glued together with that evil compound called Time+Neglect+grunge.
I've poured on some WD40 above the seal and will try brute strength again in a few hours.
And, Sharper: Thank You!
Joined: Jul 10, 2008 Posts: 1638 Location: Galveston County, Tx.
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject:
Hang in there Mann....for awhile there I thought we were going to "lose you" last night to the R.V.R.E.I. (Recovering Vintage Repair Enthusiasts Institution) I was afraid to come near you. You had done the exact right thing last night,that is,just walked away from it and waited literally for the "light of day" to see things more clearly. Sounds like it is a real mess in there. You will get it done and in the worst case scenario that you have to buy some used forks....I think you can get some pretty cheap. According to this and if you don't care if they are original...here is another "Brand" as an alternative.....Kind of good to know even if you yourself don't go this route......Good luck.
Joined: Jun 03, 2009 Posts: 90 Location: Central Washington State
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:14 am Post subject:
Hey, T500, thanks for the kind comments. I must have sounded worse than I felt. I do require clear communication and the manual I have, off of a CD, is impoverished with its writing and illustrations. Thanks for the heads up re: alternatives. I'm not ready for that yet, but I may well be soon! Before I check myself in to the R.V.R.E.I.
So what do I do? Keep pulling the two tubes apart? I worry that there's something in there, below the oil seal, that I'll harm, and, since I don't have an accurate drawing to go by, I can't eradicate my worry.
Another thought I had was to use some sort of rubber-dissolver if such exists and remove the seal with that. Downside is I don't know what else is in there to be damaged by this chemical assault. Also thought about using a drift or something similar and trying to pound the seal down. But that might just get things worse: jammed in place or driven into the lower tube never to again see the light of day.
I wont' have time to look at it again until tonight. Maybe the liquid wrench will have done its work (I know it works on metal to metal binding; never tried it on rubber to metal.
Thanks again.
Joined: Jul 10, 2008 Posts: 1638 Location: Galveston County, Tx.
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:38 am Post subject:
The seal is probably rubber coated thin wall steel....I would wait and see if anybody agrees with me about maybe drilling two small pilot holes into the seal opposite each other and just barely start some small wood screws or the like and see if you can at least yank out the seal with some channel locks......and then you may see a little more of what is going on.....I dunno..just a thought. PROTECT the outer tube top and the inner tube before and if you try this....I would wait and see if anybody else thinks this is a good idea. _________________ _________________________________
GONE.......WITH A PUFF OF SMOKE AND A BLUR OF SPOKE........
_______________________________________
Joined: Jun 03, 2009 Posts: 90 Location: Central Washington State
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:45 am Post subject:
You're correct about the construction of the seal. I'd thought about the screw idea too, but didn't want to screw things up even worse. Sorry. I'm a pun magnet.
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I was afraid to come near you. 
You had done the exact right thing last night,that is,just walked away from it and waited literally for the "light of day" to see things more clearly. Sounds like it is a real mess in there. You will get it done and in the worst case scenario that you have to buy some used forks....I think you can get some pretty cheap. According to this and if you don't care if they are original...here is another "Brand" as an alternative.....Kind of good to know even if you yourself don't go this route......Good luck.
