cl350 running on right cylinder and chirping

earl

hi all,finally got my timing sorted by reversing my advancer(i'd reassembled it wrong) and a new set of points, condenser and new battery and she started right up. as soon as i tried to ride it i could tell we were only running on one.went around the block and there was the occasional left cylinder kick in but that was it.
so i started checking for spark,connections and such thought i'd give it another try. shortly after it started up; and only running on the right cylinder still, it started to chirp. sounds like it is coming from the right side and it is in time with the RPMs, could also be coming from the cylinders. my fear is that it something grinding against aluminum, it has that kind of sound.
i'm going to go through the standards for the left cylinder; carb,ignition,compression.......
any ideas? the sound is kinda freaking me out.

Blue · Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject: chirp?

Hi, not sure what you got there, you didn't mention new plugs? I would asume though with all your other work you did that. Some GUESSES on the "chirp" First is the header pipe tight? You also said an occasional fire in the left cylnder, could the plug have fouled? Or a bad connection at the screw on connector at the plug? Have you adjusted the cam chain properly? They are the cause of many a mystery noise and would also throw the valves out a bit. Refer to the manual on that issue. Many times a loose cam chain sounds like noisy lifters or scraping noise as it flops about in there, left unattended they can actually wear a hole in the cylinders, (in between) Is proper fuel flow to the left carb happening? plugged jet or bad in-line filter , etc. You could always take the right cyl. plug and put the left wire on it to check for fire, held on the block of course. Just a few thibgs to try, hope it helps....Blue

earl · Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject:

hey blue thanks. i'm working with a 1970 cl350. i blew out the carb and also found that my reasonably new spark plug had a crack in the insulation around the electrode and was sparking to the side,and a weak spark at that. so with those things dealt with the left side is running. but the sound is still there. i did adjust the cam chain; 90 ATDC loosen the tensioner lock nut and the bolt, let the spring set the tension and tighten.
bill lane has suggested the screw driver to the ear to try and maybe get a better idea where the sound is located.
if anyone else has suggestion before i pull the motor apart please chime in.

Russell · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:32 am Post subject:

Given that you have been working on the cam-chain tensioner that seems like a good place to look for the noise source. The tensioner may be a bit sticky in there and you may have ended up with more slack in the chain rather than less.

Blue · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:11 am Post subject: cam chain

Those cam chains are tricky business and a lot more finicky tham one might think. You said the adjustment was at ,I forget 90 before atdc, how was that achieved? My friend John (retired honda dealer/racer/mechanic who was 55 yrs old when 350s came out, says the side cover has to be removed and tdc has to be "felt" by turning the crank by hand to insure it is "dead on" and that can't be done by the kicker, there is a tiny amount of free play that is felt before adjusting, etc. If the adjuster hasn't been messed with for like a million years as is the case most of the time, as the other guys say, it could be sticking and not operating properly, still I get led to that . As for the cracked plug, I hate that, drives me nuts, don't know how many times in my 64 years on this planet that "new" stuff fails, you are of course using NGK plugs as they are the ones with "rolled threads", not cut threads like most that can ruin threads in the head if crossthreaded. I can't think of any other reasons for the "chirp" except as I mentioned before, a bad seal at the exhaust, helped a friend with one once and we traced it to the old exhaust gaskets (plural) that he did not see before installing the new ones over them, the old ones or what was left of them was not allowing a good seal and he had kinda a chirp, more like a whistled twee, twee, twee when he reved and backed it off, just a thought, I've worked my way around prior owners mistakes more than once. if there is a leak of this type a smoking branch or candle or something could show it. The screwdriver stethoscope works really well as Bill? has said, I actually purchased an old stethoscope at a flea market years ago for $4.00 and it is a cool tool, like to listen to my own heart when I get an attitude when something don't go right, like the forth time you drop a bolt and it disappears somewhere down amongst the motor and surrounding parts. later.....Blue

earl · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:48 pm Post subject:

well some new news. my mysterious sound comes once the bike has warmed up, or so it seems. i started it up ready to listen with my screw driver and there was no noise just the gentle purring of a well tuned engine. let it warm up a bit and out for a ride,well half way around the block its back. listen as i might i still can't figure out exactly where it is coming from; the best i can do is say its in the top end; more right side than left. seeing as i had it apart and did the rings i thought/hoped it was maybe just the rings kinda working themselves in; i know this is wishful thinking. so a little oil in the cylinder but the sound remained the same. i checked the valves are getting oil and they are. i don't see any other alternative but to open up the engine and look for the demons inside. i will start with the cam chain tensioner before i remove the entire engine. i'll pull it and make sure it is working correctly.
blue when i spoke of setting it before i said "90 ATDC" which is what the manual instructs. and i did check your other suggest of the exhaust seal , all good unfortunately. thanks earl

Russell · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:06 pm Post subject:

Any way the noise could come from the points area?Anything in there that needs a little appropriate lubricant?

earl · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:09 am Post subject:

no to the points area. i have cleaned and lubed the advancer and replace the points(and lube the little pad). and on top of that the sound seems to be coming from the other side. i'm going to remove the cam chain tensioner today and if all is well there i'll have to pull the engine and crack it open.

Blue · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:58 am Post subject: tweet, tweet

Earl, not making light of your problem, I know how frustrating they can be. I am helping my friend, retired Honda shop owner/mechanic/racer today to put an engine together as his vision is failing, I'll try to squeeze a little info from him and post later......Blue

Bikegeezer · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:10 am Post subject:

earl · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:56 am Post subject:

thanks stu, after i remove the tensioner( to check it is operating correctly) i will follow your instruction. i'm sure there is no issue with that honda bulletin was issued in 1969 and my bike is a 1970 cl350.
blue i will check in with you latter.
thanks and remember the more the merrier.

Bikegeezer · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:12 am Post subject:

earl · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:23 am Post subject:

stu you are thinking i shouldn't/don't need to pull the tensioner off first to give it the once over. if anyone would like to hear this noise i'm going to post a video,once i figure out how. check back tonight.

Blue · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject: chirp, tweet, etc

Earl, Just got home from the motor job with John, he agrees that the tensioner could be at fault, however, (darn, hate to say this) but he also suspects a possible head gasket problem, that seals when cold but leaks when running temperature is reached, said he has seen that on a number of occasions, said he wasn't sure if a bubble test (real soapy liquid) would detect it or not, but to give it a try, hated to say that, but it is a possible, he also ran down the procedure (bulletin) the is mentioned above, but also was happy to here that there are people like yourself who care enough to keep the old dogs going, later.....Blue

Russell · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject:

Yeah...I didn't want to mention head gasket but I have heard them make a noise that could be characterised as a 'chirp'...sort of like the sound of high speed air blowing past metal reeds.I didn't mention that as a possibility as it seemed that new head and base gaskets would have gone in during the freshen up and care taken to torque it all down in proper sequence.